you can get intracranial hemorrhage. if it's sufficient enough it can kill you. the other type of injury you can get to the brain is injury. the brain is a mass of cells. they're all connected to the. the connection in part is through fibers called axions. it passes down certain chemicals which activate the cells. they run from cell to cell. when the brain moves back and forth due to impacts the axons will be stretched to a certain

degree. it's tho big deal because the axons can take that. if the movement is very violent, it stretches the axons and this causes injury. if the movement is relatively mild the injury is repaired by the axon and there's no problem. then there's a gradual increase in force. that force is so great that it will injury these axons and they will thot be able to be

repaired. they die. luckily you have a lot of brain cells and a lot of connections. you can lose a good number of brain cells and still be all right. at some point you'll have impairment and at some point you're going to die. impacts of the head with a hard surface like concrete what you worry about is the intracranial bleeding and axonal injury. it's always dangerous. if you hit your head on the floor, it's carpet.

it absorbed. concrete doesn't yield. when your head hits concrete, your head heals, not the concrete. it's dangerous. could you kill somebody? sure if you banged them hard enough. even if you don't do enough to injure the brain significantly you're going to have some stunning effect. that's what concussion -- these football players who get the concussion, what it is is axonal injury. some can take it, some can't. you fall and hit your head you can get a mild concussion.

you don't lose consciousness but it's like stunning. stunning goes to concussion to getting worse. i think the best thing is stunned where you may not have any significant visible injury to the brain but you're stunned just from the impact. stunning sg a good teris a good. it's better than concussion. >> you're suggesting it's an impression on the impact and how susceptible the person is to it? >> how many times and how much force is used. at least if you get your head hit something unyielding like concrete with sufficient force to tear its scalp you're going to be at a minimal stunned. it can fw much worse than that.

even in people who have their hair cropped or like a lot of people in this courtroom are bald. that removes a little of the cushion. the thing is when you have lacerations there's some trauma. >> you were talking specifically about lacerations to the scalp. i know that you've received the photographs and reviewed the evidence that george zimmerman had two lacerations. if i might have the lights, i'd like to show state's exhibit 76. this has been identified as the photogra

photograph. you've seen this before? >> yes. >> is this evidence in bleeding to the back of the head? >> yes. there's two sites of bleeding. >> two wound sites, if you will? >> right. the laceration. it's tear. >> i'll stick that here on the projector just as a frame of reference. that's the first picture. then you later saw pictures where some of the blood had been wiped away? >> right.

>> let's take a look for a moment at 74. what do you see in this picture in terms of evidence of injury? >> looks like a bruise on the left side. it's not a very good photograph. >> let me see if i can find one. these are all in evidence so the jury can review them at their leisure. they aren't in order so i'm

struggling a bit. if i can't find it easily we'll move on. i think we're stuck with this one for the moment. do you see in this photograph what looks like two separate areas of swelling? >> yes, if you look, you can see there's an injury at -- >> i have a pointer if that would help? >> yes. >> may i approach the witness? >> yes. >> there's an injury here and here which probably represent the lacerations. it looks like clotted blood.

if you look right in between this kind of a valley and the reason is that this impact site is swollen. this is swollen here. this is not swollen. you know there are two separate impacts. one impact here and one impact here with an area in between that's not swollen. the swollen is bleeding under the scalp. >> the knot or the lump that people get after hitting their head on something hard is blood as opposed to some other fluid? >> it's blood. a medical term is hematoma but a knot is non-medical. >> talk about the curvature of

the head and why you're confident that's two separate impacts as opposed to one impact that could have caused all of the injuries that you see? >> you've got an unyielding surface. when it's hit it's going to flatten at the point of impact. it's not going to flatten three inches on the other side. on top of that you can see if it was one impact it would be swollen between the two. here you get two areas of swelling so they are separate. sg you commented earlier that it's not that easy to get a laceration from impacting on a flat, solid object. >> because it takes sufficient force. everyone bangs their head and has fallen and hit their head.

you don't get lacerations. >> what's the mechanism by which the laceration occurs where the skin is split? >> there's two ways. one is if it's a direct perpendicular impact. you just crush the skin. you push it a way from the point of impact and you get a tear. the other is if you hit it at an angle such that you bang it and slide, the surface holds it. a laceration is nothing but a tear.

>> here is the picture i was looking for. this is exhibit 57 and see if there's anything else here that more clearly shows what you were talking about. >> yeah. you can see there's a swelling here and there's like a little dolly here. it's swollen here and swollen here. there's a laceration here. this is a blood clot over a laceration. one of the lacerations is almost an inch and the other one is like fifth of an inch. you can't say which is which. >> is the laceration itself a significant injury?

>> it's a marker of force. it varies if you get a bad laceration rarely, rarely i've seen it where people have bled to death but not like this type of laceration. >> when you say it's marker of force, are you saying it represents something other than the actual injury itself? >> right. it indicates you've had severe force because it's not like you just bump your head or something like that. >> would it be possible to have your head struck on something hard enough to ring the bell or stun you that wouldn't leave a mark visible some hours later on the outside of the scalp? >> sure. you see there's a lot in abused children and there's not a mark on their head but you get inside they have skull fractures. you can get severe trauma to the head without external injury,

actually. that's why they're always doing ct scans when you have head trauma. >> the presence of the injury on the outside, are you saying doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't additional impact or that the impact itself was minor? >> okay. what i'm saying is that you can get severe head trauma without any marks on the head or you can get marks, lacerations and contusions. they are not necessarily -- more commonly when you get head trauma you have lacerations on the scalp. >> gauging the amount of force necessary to cause those injuries alone would that be enough force in your opinion to cause this stunning effect that you talked about?

>> yes. anyone that has had a real bang on the head knows you don't have to have a laceration or a big bruise to be -- like a transient type of thing. you're kind of stunned. that's a good term to use. stunning would be better. people experience that when they hit their heads and it's gnat no significant neurologically. >> if you sustained a stunning blow like this and you continued to receive additional blows to the head, would the additional blows continue to cause this stunning effect? >> yeah. >> it may compounds in a way in.

>> yes. if you get a concussion and it's mild and in a short period of time get multiple other concussions people have died. that's friday night football where they get one week and another one they'll collapse and die. it's a recognized syndrome. >> these impacts could be cumulative just that night into multiple stunning effects ultimately leading to a concussion? >> yeah. i'm using the term stunning and i know any physician's listening to me are cringing because essentially it's a very mild concussion but stunning is kind of more, it's not an incapacitating thing. you're not knocked out.

anyone that has fallen and hit their head hard knows what i'm talking about, the stunning effect. you hit your head hard you understand. >> there's been some discussion in the testimony about punctate abrasions. let me show you exhibit of 6. are there punctate abrasions? >> right here. it's kind of washed out with the photograph. you can see little reddish markings and that indicates there was impact welcome a flat surface that was not really smooth like this wood here. if you hit your head on this wood you would not get punctate. you'd have to get something with

a little nonflat surface. a little edge to it. >> would concrete that's used in your every day sidewalk have that kind of surface? >> yes. >> is this injury consistent with mr. zimmerman's head having impacted a sidewalk? >> yes, sir. >> we're just checking to see if you'd care for some water? >> no. >> the punctate abrasion is that red stuff around the temple? >> right. it's not smooth. it's an area right here and then a little here and a little here and a little here and a little here. that sort of thing. >> there appears to be a noticeable lump or knot.

does that appear to be a consequence of the impact. >> do you think it's associated with the impact that caused the punctate abrasions? >> yes, sir. >> could that then be, those injuries caused by one or more impacts with the sidewalk? >> yes, sir. >> let me show you state exhibit 70.

the fist or the sidewalk? >> you could see there's a little adhesion over there. it's not a good photograph, unfortunately. again it's consistent with some impact. >> this is another of the same side. other side of the head on the left side in exhibit 73.

it's consistent with blunt force trauma? >> again you see i would assume a print photograph would show it better. there's some marks over here. >> may i approach the witness briefly and i'll return? >> yes, you may. >> just to show you this photograph itself. could you point that out to the jury. >> there's a pile and then another area over here. >> do you see it?

>> it's not as distinct as on the other side. >> i'd like to direct your attention to this area above the ear. >> that's the area i'm saying looks like it's swollen in that area. it's hard to say definitely. >> i see. >> it's consistent with swelling as a result of blunt force trauma? >> yes, sir. >> that area is this general area here? >> right.

>> you have seen exhibit 79, the first photograph taken at the scene of mr. zimmerman's face? >> yes, sir. >> what signs of trauma do you see in this picture? >> well, you have to look at the original but this appears bruised. if you look at the out line of the nose here and it shows up, there's swelling here and a little abrasion there. >> is this a better picture? >> yes. >> maybe i could approach the witness. >> yes, you may.

>> if you look at this, you can see there's congestion in the nose and an abrasion. notice how the outline here is a smooth outline. here it bulges out and then comes back. if you then compare it to the another photograph this is consistent with a possible displaced fracture because the next photo taken of him in police custody, which is only a few hours later the swelling is not as prominent. that's why i believe the ems thought he had a fractured nose. you can see there's a swelling right here. it's very prominent. it's just below the area where he's got a small abrasion. >> is this injury you see in

this exhibit consistent with having been punched in the nose? >> yes, sir. >> this is exhibit 48. we'll put it on the projector and see if you can find the detail. this is represented as the photograph taken several hours later at the police department of mr. zimmerman's face. can you point to the jury what you're referring to. >> if you look now notice the swelling appears to be gone. it can't be gone fp it's just blood. it's strongly suggestive that he had a displaced fracture here and maybe examined by the ems they just pushed it back either consciously or unconsciously and now it's just in place.

it's being held there by the muscle. >> either way whether or not the fracture was displaced or not or even fractured, does the trauma that you see in that photograph and this photograph consistent with having been struck hard in the face? >> right. then there's another bulb here. i'm the next american success story. working for a company

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on the witness stand is the granddaddy of med since in the united states. he's ripping each and every one of strongest points of the

prosecutors case moment by moment with science. i cannot wait to see the cross. let's listen. >> i think you have six identitiable regions. there may be others but the photographs are not of the quality that you can say. >> there may have been impacts that for one reason or another may have landed but didn't actually manifest itself in a visible b injury? >> right. >> objection. speculation. >> sustained. >> in a fight situation where someone may be resisting the

attack by someone else, would you expect them, for example as they are being pushed toward the concrete to resist by their muscles or their back trying to sit up, for example? >> i would assume so. >> consistent with what you see here is there may have been other impacts but they weren't so pronounced because there was some ability to resist the full force of the impact? >> objection. speculation. >> overruled. >> yes, i told you it does not mean there were only six.

>> he leans forward to take a note. he's an incredible, incredible lawyer. now they're going off to side bar. this is an awesome opportunity to look at the scores that were made by the defense attorney. this defense team, can i just tell you in the hundreds of trials i've covered i'm seen some real lousy lawyering and some great lawyering and this is really great. we've been shaking our had had like holy cow. this is a textbook strategy. moment by moment, point by point attack on the prosecution's case with science and with a nice scientist. >> he comes across as very engaging, very knowledgeable and

he explains it in terms that the jury can understand. if they reached in and pulled their heart out they could be alive for ten or 15 seconds. that graphic example sets it where you can understand somebody can be alive that he's saying they can do because he wrote the book. he wroted the book called forensic pathology. >> he got caught a bibliography. he's testified in some of the biggest trials. trying to come back and say you're a crazy scientist, your creds are no good. you can't do that. you're looking at mark o'mara about to cross your screen. t this is the moment where they're trying to assess to get something to eat and think what about they've heard because it's a lot.

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welcome back live. i'm ashleigh banfield reporting live on the george zimmerman

second-degree murder trial. the great seal of the state of florida. brief break inside this courtroom. it's been riveting testimony from the granddaddy of forensic pathology. he's been on the stand all morning point by point taking every piece of the prosecutors case and e vviserating it. here was a moment that stood out because a big part of this case is george zimmerman said he was trying to pin trayvon martin's hand's done after sustaining a big old beating and why was he found face down w his hands under his body after a gunshot to the heart. dr. vincent had quite the explanation for this. look how he put it to this jury. >> even if i reached across and

put my hand through your chest, grabbed your heartnd ripped it out you could talk to me for 10 to 15 seconds or walk over to me because the thing that's controlling your movement and ability to speak is the brain. that has a reserve supply of 10 to 15 seconds. now that's minimum. that assumes no blood is going to the brain. >> from what i understand you to say then for at least 10 to 15 seconds after mr. martin sustained the shot he could have been capable of talking and of voluntary movement? >> he could, right. some people just lose consciousness immediately. it's psychological. it's not physical. he has the potential for 15 to

15 minimal. >> moving his arm from an out streeched position to underneath his body? >> objection. >> sustained. >> could that include moving his arms from an out reached position to underneath his body during that 10 to 15 seconds? >> yes. >> at the time that one loses consciousness i take it they then lose the ability for voluntary movement? >> oh, yeah. once you're unconscious you don't have voluntary movement. >> and you would not be feeling pain? >> that's correct. >> unbelievable, remarkable testimony especially as you watch dr. vincent di maio. they're not always the most dynamic people in the world. that one bucks the trend. he's facing right over to the

jury of almost all women. he's explaining this in a folksy manner and cracking jokes of getting the court to laugh about being bald. he's a real get for the defense. you're going to hear that. what did it cost to get you? it happens every time. i want to bring in some of the best experts on the case now. faith jenkins, former criminal defense attorney and danny, that last shot where you could see don west at the podium asking his questions and you could see the prosecutor almost shaking his head in his hand. i know you could feel the pain and suffering of that prosecutor and the elation of the defense attorney. >> right. the prosecutor know in order to get a conviction in this case they have to paint a picture of george zimmerman as a liar, repeatedly he's lied. he's given a number of inconsistent statements and one of the things they wanted to

argue, they still want to argue is george zim mezimmerman lied e did with the hands. when the police got there he was face down with his hands underneath him. now the defense have given him an out on this. it's possible he could still move and he moved on his own. it will be very interesting to swl see what the prosecutor does. >> danny, bernie is no joke. he's phenomenal. i've seen direct examine flags where i thought he's finished. what could you say to that and he comes out with masterful cross-examination. i'm not going to say you're going to guess, but go ahead and guess. ma can he say to this? >> he's going to have to attack some of the foundation for his conclusions. that's the best i is surmise.

no expert is infallible. there has to be something he said inconsistent or something they'll try to exploit. remember, it illustrates an interesting thing. the prosecutor is stuck with whoever their m.e. is employed by the state. if the defense can go out and shop around for the best money can buy and it looks like they got bang for their buck in this instance. >> yeah. here is my guess. you're going to be hear, you weren't the m.e., were you? you weren't there doing the examine nation of zimmerman's head that night. all you had to go on were the photos and other people's reports. it happens in a lot of cases as well. you get experts up on the stand and that's all they have to go on. stand by for one minute. another huge point that was made in this case by the prosecution was the gunshot wound. was it a contact gunshot wound. was that muzzle of the gun right up against trayvon martin's skin or was it up against his clothing and was that clothing

drooping down because was the victim on top of george zimmerman. it's a huge debate. he gives his answers after the break. and if a family of four like yours switches out fast food dinner just once a week you can save over $690 a year. unbelievable. it's believable. save on a kraft dinner backed by the low price guarantee. walmart

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welcome back. i'm ashleigh banfield reporting live in sanford, florida. that's the status of the trial now. you're not missing any live testimony. we'll get you right back into that courtroom as it activates once again. they're on break but this gives you an opportunity to show you what you may have missed. there's been some stunning testimony in this courtroom this morning. i want to bring in mark nejame. you were watching along with me as dr. vincent dimaio took one big point at the prosecution's case and that's where was the

muzzle of the gun when trayvon martin was shot to death because if trayvon martin was on top of george zimmerman it could have been very different than if trayvon martin were on the bottom and george zimmerman was doing that mma beatdown. >> forget what george zimmerman had to say. forget what the prosecution has to say. listen to the science. the science tells it all. forget everything else. it tells you there was a separation between the gunshot and the body. we know that the gunshot penetrated the clothing and then entered the body. >> two to four inches separation between the clothing and the actual skin.

>>. >> the natural inclination that the bullet will go but that's a minor point. the most important point is the nature of the defect of the clothing and tattooing. if you lean over somebody you notice that the clothing tends to fall away from the chest. if instead you're lying on your back and somebody shoots you the clothing is going to be against your chest. the fact that we know the clothing was two to four inches away is consistent with somebody leaning over the person doing the shooting and that the clothing is too to two to four inches away from the person firing. >> you may consider in your

opinion as well that the clothing was wet. mr. martin's shirt was described as being damp and raining that night and when it was photographed at the medical examiner's office's the next day it was wet in places. you may also consider that the responding officers found an unopened can of a beverage in the front pouch of mr. martin's hooded sweatshirt. this is in evidence as exhibit 148. an unopened 23 ounce can of a fruit beverage. >> yes, sir. >> do you find those facts consistent with what you saw as well as consistent with what mr. zimmerman said happened? >> this would tend to reenforce.

the reason as you bend forward the clothing falls away from the body is gravity. if you have wet clothing, clothing is heavier and there's going to be be a greater tendency to fall. if you have something in the front pulling the shirt down as you lean over, again it tends to pull away from the body. the wound itself by the gap, by the powder tattooing in the face of contact of the clothing indicates this is consistent with mr. zimmerman's account that he mr. martin was over him leaning forward at the time of the shot. >> and you can be guaranteed the prosecutor is taking copious notes figuring out during this break what do i do to dismantle

that. coming up after the break all of the things you missed, even if you were glued to that television there's a very big courtroom and the cameras don't catch most of it, but guess who did. jean casarez. she'll give us the full report of everything you didn't see.

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welcome back. guess who was inside the courthouse. you're not missing testimony. jean casarez is not missing any testimony. she's run out to give us the play by play. we miss a lot even when we're glued to the television. tell me what i missed. >> he just started giving his credentials and the jury sort of became focused and affixed on him. as he testified they took notes but they looked up. notes, looked up. he had pictures right to his side. they would be looking inin ini pictures. they were intense. when he said i've had an extreme interest in gunshot wounds, is a

b sybrina fulton walked out. we can't blame her. who would want to listen to this testimony about your son. >> we're so clinical talking about the trajectory and the stipling and injuries. it's really painful to remember especially when you sthee that bottle of ice tea. it's a kid. somebody wants justice. jean stand by for one moment because there was another moment that vincent dimaio was able to bring out and that's the argument that the prosecutors have been making that george zimmerman's injuries weren't severe enough to be in fear for his life hence bring up this whole self-defense. listen as he talks about what happens when you get your bell rung. >> impacts of the head when it's

hard surface like concrete more like internal bleeding. it's always dangerous if you hit your head here on the floor it's carpet, it absorbs. concrete doesn't yield. when your head hits concrete your head heels, not the concrete. it's dangerous. could you kill somebody, sure, if you banged them hard enough. even if you don't do enough to injury the brain substantiateig you're going to have some stunning effect. that's what concussion, these football players who get the concussion, what it is it's

axonal injury. you can get very mild concussion, not just banging your head on cabinet, that doesn't do it. you fall and hit your head and you can get a mild concussion. you don't lose consciousness. you just appear stunned. i know this is not a medical term but it's like stunning goes to concussion goes to getting worse. i think the best thing is stunned where you may not have any significant visible injury to the brain but you're stunned just from the impact. stunning is a good term.

>> faith jenkins, i lost count of time that this witness said stun, stunned, stunning. it was so powerful. tell me the power of what he said. >> there's a huge difference of ha he's saying the injuries he could have sustained and the fact he could have been stun and the injuries that he did sustain. at the end of the day he only needed band aids, not sutures and defense and the defense knows that a problem because his injuries are still minor. even though the doctor said it could have been several more significant they weren't. >> spoken like a good former prosecutor. >> danny, give me your quick whip around. ten seconds on the power of what he said. we've all had our bells rung before. >> if you thought scratches and

scrapes weren't enough now pe have actual cranial injury inside. how many shots of the prosecutor doing one of these. what are your thoughts? >> i think they are stunned. >> good point. >> this pathologist expert is one of the to of the world. i think he just stunned them. >> do not count out these prosecutors. they're some of the best in the business. the zimmerman trial continues after this break. humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's", we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies. if you qualify, your rates won't go up due to your first accident. because making mistakes is only human, and so are we.

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